Dueling Controllers!

[Daphne]

The events in a certain (ahem) title have made me curious about this... comments below!

[hereno]

Voted no, but I'm not sure these options really cover the debate. I think when there's multiple controllers, I prefer a clear "winner" story, rather than an endless re-hypnotizing match. So, for example, new controller on the scene takes over from an old, established controller, and that story only moves in one direction. By contrast, the Ahem Title is kind of an omnidirectional mess; I can see how people could find that appealing, but I don't.

Maybe to put this another way: I like a single character clearly establishing control. MC confetti everywhere doesn't do it for me.

[Dr. White]

I'm not a big fan of 'our guy' being forced out. There should be a clear protagonist and antagonist and the 'good' guy should win in the end.

[ozymandias]

The events in a certain (ahem) title have made me curious about this... comments below!

Conflict is the essence of fiction.

[Haight]

Dueling controllers can be interesting, but when it seems to focus on the infidelity with supernatural spice sprinkled on top I check out. So it just depends on too many factors to say. It doesn't help that in both SJI and By the Book, there's several important characters that aren't shown on seen and a lot of the action is skipped, so it's hard to get a solid view of the stakes, which makes it hard to value the conflict.

There should be conflict, of course, you gotta keep a story interesting, but too much conflict doesn't give a story time to breathe. And focusing too much on the conflict and not enough on the kink means it's a different kind of story.

I'm not a big fan of 'our guy' being forced out. There should be a clear protagonist and antagonist and the 'good' guy should win in the end.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but I like to see happy endings (even if it took mind control to get some of the characters there) and I don't like it when mind control is incompatible with a "good" ending.

[dwcomics]

I voted yes, but I agree with some of the comments listed here: there should be a clear winner at some point instead of an endless spiraling (no pun intended) of clashing storylines.  That or something that plays up the comedic side of things by making the controllers completely ignorant of one another's existence, similar to Encore, Encore 2.

[KingMind]

I'm not a big fan of 'our guy' being forced out. There should be a clear protagonist and antagonist and the 'good' guy should win in the end.

I disagree a little bit.  I like a twist when the antagonist actually wins and when it comes to MC stories I don’t see many that fit the role of “good guy.”  In MC stories our protagonist is usually an antagonist since they are going around controlling others.

If there were two controllers I would like one of them to be a woman like in Waiting Room.  It was fun having Dr. Laurel as a controller until she herself got brainwashed then she became a puppet for the doctor.  If Laurel was the protagonist and the doctor is the antagonist I’d want to see the antagonist win definitely ^_^

[Haight]

I disagree a little bit.  I like a twist when the antagonist actually wins and when it comes to MC stories I don’t see many that fit the role of “good guy.”  In MC stories our protagonist is usually an antagonist since they are going around controlling others.

That's a matter of definitions, I think. In the space of MC kink it's helpful to not have any character who mind controls another be automatically a villain, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellating.

[hereno]

In the space of MC kink it's helpful to not have any character who mind controls another be automatically a villain, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellating.

Not quite sure what that means? But I think for this conversation to have value, we'd really have to nail down definitions for "good," "bad," "protagonist," and "antagonist." I mean, if this were IRL, anybody who MCs anybody is a horrible, atrocious monster. But a lot of these stories don't really have that vibe, right? So drawing your exact lines for "good" is important. And my guess is, if everybody did that... everybody would have different lines.

My spin on this is: MC is inherently immoral and bad, so as long as we all understand this is fiction, just go for it and let the controller be as selfish and greedy as he wants. Traditionally that's a "bad guy," but in this space, that's the whole point, IMO.

[Haight]

My spin on this is: MC is inherently immoral and bad, so as long as we all understand this is fiction, just go for it and let the controller be as selfish and greedy as he wants. Traditionally that's a "bad guy," but in this space, that's the whole point, IMO.

That was kinda my point. That's why I said "That's a matter of definitions" and "In the space of MC kink."

Having room for a loving partner to mind control their SO for sexy times makes this stuff more fun. Constantly belaboring the point of "mind control is evil" defeats the purpose.

[hereno]

Having room for a loving partner to mind control their SO for sexy times makes this stuff more fun.

Probably a larger discussion, but: I've really come to believe that a key pillar of MC is change. Like... there's a reason it's never the popular jock who gets MC powers; it's the nerdy dweeb. The popular jock (we expect) is already getting laid a lot, so who cares if he then gets MC? It's the change -- nerdy dweeb getting all the girls, formerly dismissive girls suddenly submitting, etc -- that makes the fetish what it is.

For me, that's why there's not a lot of "loving partner" MC, because in that scenario, what changes? I'm willing to believe there's an answer to that question, but it's probably a less extreme change than the previous example.

[Haight]

Probably a larger discussion, but: I've really come to believe that a key pillar of MC is change. Like... there's a reason it's never the popular jock who gets MC powers; it's the nerdy dweeb. The popular jock (we expect) is already getting laid a lot, so who cares if he then gets MC? It's the change -- nerdy dweeb getting all the girls, formerly dismissive girls suddenly submitting, etc -- that makes the fetish what it is.

Possible, though I tend to focus more on the change of the subject. Honestly I'm kind of over the "nerdy white dude" as the default MC/protagonist, and I like to see more variety there.

For me, that's why there's not a lot of "loving partner" MC, because in that scenario, what changes? I'm willing to believe there's an answer to that question, but it's probably a less extreme change than the previous example.

Sure, but if you could set it up with plenty of characterization beforehand, it could be very worthwhile. IMO the heat from a transformation (mental or physical) comes from both the intensity of the change and how well-developed the character being changed is.

[hereno]

Oh, that's interesting. You're saying that if I know a character really deeply, even a minor change feels big; but if the character is really just a stereotype ("haughty blonde"), then the change needs to be huge for the audience to feel it. Makes sense!

[zerocross]

Conflict is part of good storytelling, and that can express itself in the form of dueling controllers.

That being said, few of us read MC stories purely for their abilities to tell a compelling story. It's erotica and it's a form of fiction which an explicitly different purpose than other science fiction or fantasy stories: to arouse. As such, every plot twist or element should be analyzed with that in mind.

No story can be aimed at every audience.

There are MC stories which have cuckolding elements, written with the explicitly purpose of generating a negative response when the protagonist's partner is mind controlled, and they do nothing for me. They are perfectly valid stories but they aren't for me. I read MC stories because they appeal to my Dom side, the part of me who wants own women. Cuckold stories are in direct conflict with that, although obviously the story would appeal to me from the antagonist's perspective.

I'm not the only reader, and other people will enjoy those stories either because of the very elements that are incompatible with my kinks or despite of them.

What's important, however, that the story doesn't change audience in the middle. If you're writing a power fantasy, then keep it a such. If you're writing a tale where there's cuckolding, then introduce that early on. It's important to be aware of your subgenre and who you're writing for.

[Haight]

Oh, that's interesting. You're saying that if I know a character really deeply, even a minor change feels big; but if the character is really just a stereotype ("haughty blonde"), then the change needs to be huge for the audience to feel it. Makes sense!

Exactly. And after a while, stories where characters aren't really developed but they're zapped to be completely mindless drones get old.