Saint James Infirmary 158: Going through the Drawers

[mns_95125]

In Zenon's defense--Dani's reaction to hypnosis was weird, but the story she verbalized was somewhat plausible, and didn't directly point to The Watch.  In addition, that was his first session with her.  He probably thought he'd get another opportunity or that Derek would do his job--heck, that might have been what Derek was there to do during the "hypnotism tango" and everything went pear-shaped.

That's something I never really understood: Why Derek?  If all he's doing is making use of hypnotic triggers put in place by Zenon then it's difficult to see how he could turn up any information that Zenon himself could not.  If Danielle's knowledge of the watch is suppressed enough that Zenon couldn't dig it out during her therapy session then why would we expect Derek to do any better?  A lot of the confusion over what Danielle knew, when she knew it, and under what circumstances really comes down to this question.

Or perhaps Derek was just hired on as muscle and wasn't supposed to be making use of Zenon's triggers as part of the search at all?  That is sort of implied by Claudia's comments in #114: "The sex slaves were your reward.  Not part of the operation."  It's also possible that Danielle knew about the watch all along but simply didn't want to use it until she was hypnotized and found herself in a position where doing so could help out her new master.  If she was an escapee from the New York harem I could understand that -- although her remembering such an experience would make her willingness to be hypnotized again, by anyone, for any reason a bit harder to swallow.

Update: Actually, the dialog in #60-62 makes it pretty clear that Danielle doesn't remember the watch when she isn't hypnotized, so forget about that possibility.

[Chettbaker]

I just can not find another picture Danielle have those panty?
not this one (158)

I may be miss pages?

It gets mentioned at the bottom of the page in the fourth comic.  sji-i004.

[jmundt29]

Yeah, she's wearing them or a white version of them the night she meets Adrian--which is why it seems highly unlikely that the phrase is a trigger because then Erin could have kicked all this off months sooner just from her comment.

I took the chastisement in the interrogation to mean that Derek wasn't supposed to sample the goods until after he'd thoroughly investigated each subject (presumably with the aid of the hypnotic triggers the doc implanted).  From what we've seen of Derek's "investigation" it looked like he skipped the investigating part and went straight to the fun.

Also, just as it's unclear what Dani knew how and under what circumstances she remembers what she knows or remembers what she's supposed to forget or not know at all--it's equally unclear exactly what happened during that hypnotism tango.  We don't know what exactly Derek's trigger was, but it looks like Adrian somewhat accidentally mimicked it without being aware that he did anything.  He wasn't really aware of anything hinky going on until after Dani came back downstairs in the French maid outfit.

[mns_95125]

Yeah, she's wearing them or a white version of them the night she meets Adrian--which is why it seems highly unlikely that the phrase is a trigger because then Erin could have kicked all this off months sooner just from her comment.

As an aside, did anyone else notice the pun?  "Remove before flight" as in before the airplane takes off... or before fleeing the harem.  Heh.

[laguna85]

I just can not find another picture Danielle have those panty?
not this one (158)

I may be miss pages?

It gets mentioned at the bottom of the page in the fourth comic.  sji-i004.

Thank you Chettbaker was word Now I remember

Yes I got the pun "Remove before flight"
Most I have see is the red tags are on bombs. the last safe thing before take off

[GodWilling]

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[jmundt29]

Well, he DID, but most of that time was spent in some sort of Star Wars fantasy, and then having his nose broken.

There are a lot of pieces here that still don't fit.  Why did Adrian's hypnocock gag work?  If the trigger really is a catchphrase why would Derek EVEN Derek be stupid enough to try it on someone Zenon hadn't treated?

I would also say that Derek's investigations were spectacularly ineffective because he didn't do any actual investigating when he was with the appropriate targets.  For instance, he didn't even know Amy had a sister.

[GodWilling]

.

[jmundt29]

Except, there's a conversation on New Year's that makes no sense.  Derek is brushing off someone he just calls "Dude."  Now, it would make more sense if it were Gil or someone from his old life, but he is tactless enough to have said that to Zenon if he were busy enjoying his fun.

Also, we appear to be talking across one another.  My contention is that Derek didn't do any fact-finding beyond "She has the trigger, what can I make her do?" with any of his part-time thralls, even Danielle.  As such, if he's the "on the ground" investigator--he spectacularly failed in that he didn't even attempt to do his job (unless he was actually trying to activate a trigger he was sure would be there in Dani).

Also, I don't think Claudia was seconds away from succeeding, because Derek seems to go from activation to fun-time with no stops.  If Adrian hadn't been there, Derek might have eventually figured it out, but he never would have let Dani percolate the way Adrian did.  He'd have moved her to his dump of a house, and not let her explore her own inclinations.  Eventually, the Watch might have come up, but it would have taken a considerable amount of time.


With regard to Zenon, I can believe that they never formally met, but I would think they'd have to coordinate somehow so Derek didn't suffer multiple incidents like the one with Jacqui.

If he'd never met or spoken to Zenon, wouldn'this resonse to being admonished be "Who the hell is Zenon?"

On a side note--Isn't 159 slated to be posted tomorrow?  Are we due for a Valentine's Day special next week?  Has anyone heard anything?

[mns_95125]

I don't think it makes any sense to assume that being hypnotized would automatically make Danielle pull the watch out.  She didn't actually do so until it was needed to fix the problem caused by her 'dropping in' on Erin and Adrian.  And given that she knows about the watch when hypnotized, how hard would it be for Zenon to just ask "Do you have a watch that turns women into sex slaves?"

Here's a hypothesis: Zenon doesn't know about the watch.  All Claudia asked him to do was implant the triggers and let her know what the activation phrase was; she didn't tell him why.  Perhaps she was afraid that if he knew about the watch he'd try to take it for himself -- not an implausible fear when dealing with a talented and unethical hypnotist.  That would give Derek a purpose: he's not smart or ambitious enough to make off with the watch on his own when he finds it.  He'll be happy with Zenon's triggers and the control they give him over the other women in Kearsage.  It would also explain why Danielle's behavior when he hypnotized her didn't set off any red flags for him: he wasn't part of the search and thus couldn't make the connection.  Derek does make the connection in #158 because he now has a piece of physical evidence that ties Danielle back to the New York harem.

So the plan would have been:

• Zenon implants triggers in the women in town, and tells Claudia the triggers.
• Claudia tells Derek the trigger phrase.
• Derek uses the trigger on the women as he gets the chance, asking each of them about the watch.
• Eventually one of them knows about it, he retrieves it and returns it to Claudia, then lives happily ever after with the remaining thralls.

The plan went off the rails for two reasons.  First, Derek got too caught up in enjoying the sex slaves before he found the watch.  Second, when he triggered Danielle she went off with Adrian before he had a chance to ask her about the watch.  He didn't ask her before because he couldn't have triggered her before -- Zenon had only just implanted the trigger minutes before.  They came very close to success, but a miss is as good as a mile in this case.

This hypothesis has one other interesting implication: Claudia doesn't remember Danielle.  Perhaps her memory was somehow erased during the events surrounding Danielle's departure from the New York harem?  I have a hypothesis about that too, but this post is already getting a bit long.

[jmundt29]

Well stated, and it is quite possible that Claudia wouldn't trust Zenon with information about the Watch or the perfume (if she knows about it) or the belltower (which, in all likelihood she doesn't know about).

However, this would indicate a fatal flaw in her planning.  She has everything compartmentalized so no one can sabotage her or provide information to competitors to thwart her--but she doesn't have enough organization to get anything done efficiently.  Shouldn't there be a lieutenant she trusts with the keys to the kingdom, even if it's a lieutenant thrall?

Another question--if she was instrumental in recruiting Echo, why doesn't Adrian's name produce an electrifying response when Derek mentions him?  For Echo, obviously she's mostly blank slate, but it might be interesting in flashback to see the half-quiver of an almost expression of recognition cross her face and then disappear.  However, Claudia should certainly have heard of him and...shouldn't she find that intriguing, amusing, annoying...somehow noteworthy?

[mns_95125]

She has everything compartmentalized so no one can sabotage her or provide information to competitors to thwart her--but she doesn't have enough organization to get anything done efficiently.  Shouldn't there be a lieutenant she trusts with the keys to the kingdom, even if it's a lieutenant thrall?

Perhaps.  Of course, we don't know how many other balls Claudia is trying to keep in the air or what other constraints she's operating under.  It's possible, for example, that her control over the other women in the harem is based on a lie ("the Master left me in charge") and she has to worry about what would happen if the rest of the New York harem found out.  But this is something that would call for explanation.

Another question--if she was instrumental in recruiting Echo, why doesn't Adrian's name produce an electrifying response when Derek mentions him?

I could understand a subdued reaction.  She had no particular reason to think that Adrian (or Danielle, ex hypothesi) were connected to the watch.  His name coming up could have just caused a "huh, small world" reaction.  I've seen weirder coincidences in real life provoke that kind of response.  For that matter, has Claudia ever been told Adrian's last name?  Does Derek even know it?  We don't actually know where Derek learned Adrian's name -- a quick archive scan doesn't show it ever being mentioned in his presence.  And a simple "Adrian" isn't exactly the same thing as "Adrian Kavanaugh, that guy whose girlfriend I stole for the Master."

It's also possible that Claudia's own memories have been tampered with.  The existence of the watch turns anybody who might have been exposed to it into an unreliable narrator.

Or... here's a serious epileptic tree theory.  (I don't think I actually believe this, but it would be a funky twist.)  Suppose Adrian was the master of the New York harem but got bored, so he decided to use the watch to erase his own memory and set himself up to rediscover the joys of mind control?  It could be that everything is playing out according to his design, or perhaps his own plans are spinning out of control now that his hand is no longer on the tiller.  Probably not, but amusing to think about.

[Daphne]

Or... here's a serious epileptic tree theory.  (I don't think I actually believe this, but it would be a funky twist.)  Suppose Adrian was the master of the New York harem but got bored, so he decided to use the watch to erase his own memory and set himself up to rediscover the joys of mind control?  It could be that everything is playing out according to his design, or perhaps his own plans are spinning out of control now that his hand is no longer on the tiller.  Probably not, but amusing to think about.

I hate to ruin a really entertaining hypothesis, but that one is so good I just have to say: Damn, I wish I had thought of that.

[jmundt29]

It's an interesting theory, but I'm glad you didn't think of it or use a variation of it because under all the layers, after all the knots were untied, Adrian would be a particularly fiendish and ingenious version of Bertram.  Ugh, that's sick-making.  His care for the women in his harem, and people generally sets him apart from the vast majority of characters in this genre and even central characters on this site.  It makes him more appealing and gives you greater room to experiment.  Chucking that all for a Goodcat theory, even one as twisty and interesting as the one mns proposed is a high-risk, low-reward gamble.

It is amusing to consider, though because Adrian would have to be able to control and manipulate his appearance and his age (or apparent age), thus mastering both otherworldly stamina and the art of illusion and maintaining both subconsciously.  Certain aspects of the theory are like the Ritchie film Revolver where it turns out the villain of the piece is the ego of the character being examined--exposed as an insidious, nefarious, almost completely fictitious construct.  It's an excellent brain teaser, but it's usually better as a "what if" than as the central premise.

[Werdna]

This is a really fascinating discussion, and has pointed out a few things I hadn't thought of before.  In particular, mms_95125's theory as to how Zenon and Derek were independently operating cogs in Claudia's plan sounds very plausible.

I'm trying to sort out what we know against what we've surmised or assumed, and I'm still sorting that out in my head.  I was really impressed with the idea that Derek nearly was literally seconds away from figuring it out but for Adrian's intervention back around issue #20 - I hadn't read that (still confusing to me) sequence in that way, and I think it's a good way to look at it.

(Edited to add: jmundt, I think you mean Brian, not Bertram.  I always took the beginning of Found Objects #6 to imply that Bertram was killed in a car crash on a particularly dangerous piece of road.  But this is way off topic, and we can take that discussion to the Bearing Gifts Folder.)