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Author Topic: Saint James Infirmary 429: Unavailable for Comment  (Read 22582 times)
jmundt29
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2015, 09:10:13 pm »

GW, I...disagree with you about the hotness of the operation of the harem with...considerable vehemence.

I guess my own views are closer to the other end of the spectrum.  I...don't find the prospect of Jakob or Cherry getting permanent/quasi-permanent control of the shells an appealing one.  I just don't.  On the other hand, I've thoroughly enjoyed the shenanigans of Adrian's harem so far, and consider them quite sexy.  So, we seem to be at a respectful impasse because our tastes are different.

I am curious about something.  If, at some point, Adrian decides to use the shells to punish either Cherry (seemingly a considered decision) or Claudia (potentially a hasty decision) would you find such a turn of events and the creativity it spawned sexy?

ETA--And we do have some common ground.  The "everyone is faking" possibility is a frightening prospect for me as well.

ETA--On the subject of one shell vs. seven, I'm inclined to believe that if the Icelandic Import had swiped all the remaining shells and she was unreservedly cooperating with Johannes (or even just trying to make him believe it) she would have shown all or most of the shells that she'd managed to obtain.  Of course, it's distinctly possible that Johannes asked her to retrieve the shell that had powered The Watch since he didn't know that Dani & Company had retrieved the remaining shells.  The Icelandic Import could have palmed the lot and either as a prank, a surprise, or part of a secondary plan, she could have decided to show Johannes only the single shell he as expecting.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 10:00:23 pm by jmundt29 » Logged
Haight
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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2015, 10:47:19 pm »

Well, we could always use more MC in terms of quantity, but I'm with jmundt29 in that Adrian's harem setup seems interesting.

I do have a bit of an appreciation for consensual, semi-consensual, and 'happier' mc than some, though. And Jakob or Cherry (unless she become redeemed by her love for Julian, awww snap) with the scallops is a depressing scenario.

I really, really hope everyone isn't faking.
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stiggle
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2015, 02:39:08 am »

There is one truly terrible thought, I suppose. If we want to speculate that EinfriĆ°ur has had technology used on her that is at least equivalent to the watch, this page allows us to wander quite happily deeper into that territory. And I guess that if Caitlyn could fake being under the spell of the crystal then EinfriĆ°ur could too. That would be another mind control scene to strike from the list. I keep returning to the idea that they're all faking... But that's too horrible to contemplate.

But if they fake for too long then it becomes their reality and they would stop realising they're faking.
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2015, 11:06:39 am »

But for real, do we know the Harem has extra scallops?
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GodWilling
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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2015, 12:48:41 pm »

But for real, do we know the Harem has extra scallops?

You remember that picture of Adrian squeezed between Dani and Erin's breasts that you liked so much? I think we would generally agree that those scallops were powering the (assumed) bell tower effect. It did appear that while some of them had been removed already ("That's bad, isn't it?"), some remained. The intention behind their trip was to collect the scallops. The subsequent page in that sequence (357) did nothing to suggest that they hadn't removed all the scallops they could. But as usual it's all supposition really.

But if they fake for too long then it becomes their reality and they would stop realising they're faking.

If you want to try explaining to my penis how that's hot then feel free. (That's a rhetorical offer by the way.)

Well, we could always use more MC in terms of quantity, but I'm with jmundt29 in that Adrian's harem setup seems interesting.

I do have a bit of an appreciation for consensual, semi-consensual, and 'happier' mc than some, though. And Jakob or Cherry (unless she become redeemed by her love for Julian, awww snap) with the scallops is a depressing scenario.

Each to their own and all that, but consensual mc isn't really even a thing in my book.

The set-up with the SJI harem is ingenious and interesting but it doesn't generate the thing that I find hot. Since the Night of the Watch the first time that thing happened through the action of the harem was in 365. And even though Dani has used the pendant three times now, we haven't seen a single induction, and only with Miriam has the effect of the mind control really been explored (and that was muddied by the you-feel-what-I-feel thing).

When all is said and done it's only a story. Jakob and Cherry only exist because Daphne thought to create them. They might as well do something hot with that imagined existence. Or not. As I always stress, I'm not complaining; the plot in SJI is more than enough to keep me happy. But the last time I found something really hot in the story was 343 in October last year - and it turned out Caitlyn was faking anyway. I'm all for a happy ending but if I thought it was all going to be At Home With The Harem until we get there I'd stop reading it now.

I am curious about something.  If, at some point, Adrian decides to use the shells to punish either Cherry (seemingly a considered decision) or Claudia (potentially a hasty decision) would you find such a turn of events and the creativity it spawned sexy?

If someone in a position with some tangible power was stripped of that power by the use of mind control then that would probably be hot. If Cherry were to be punished by being turned into a nicer person and being allowed to get all the sex with cuddly floppy-haired Adrian that she suddenly craved, that would be less hot than some other possibilities.

ETA--On the subject of one shell vs. seven, I'm inclined to believe that if the Icelandic Import had swiped all the remaining shells and she was unreservedly cooperating with Johannes (or even just trying to make him believe it) she would have shown all or most of the shells that she'd managed to obtain...

With the hopefully obvious proviso that this is pointless speculation: they may have taken all the scallops with them. If they are intending to do something with them in the immediate future then they presumably only need one so she only has one in her bag, or at least she only has to show him one to demonstrate that she has what they need.

It's equally possible that the crystal was just used to make her willing to join in on the evening's fun, with no broader loyalty programming.  In that case it would have worked just fine while still allowing for the theft of a scallop.  (Another thought: if the harem had multiple scallops and kept them in the same place, why steal only one?)

We don't really know to what extent the pendant can work on someone who's been exposed to the watch. I'd like to think that Caitlyn snapped out of her pendant-induced trance only when Derek demanded she call him master, but I don't think that's been established.
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Daphne
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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2015, 12:51:40 pm »

I'm all for a happy ending but if I thought it was all going to be At Home With The Harem until we get there I'd stop reading it now.

Yeah, it's not.

And just to set everyone's mind at ease: The only instance we have seen of someone faking being under control (for any period) was Derek and Caitlyn at the airport.
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Haight
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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2015, 01:39:19 pm »

The set-up with the SJI harem is ingenious and interesting but it doesn't generate the thing that I find hot. Since the Night of the Watch the first time that thing happened through the action of the harem was in 365. And even though Dani has used the pendant three times now, we haven't seen a single induction, and only with Miriam has the effect of the mind control really been explored (and that was muddied by the you-feel-what-I-feel thing).

Yeah, but Daphne is clearly aware of this - and I think she's heavily invested in giving us what we want (and can satisfy most of us most of the time). It's rough when you've got characters that have had a lot of time put into developing - it's hard to subject the same characters to MC over and over (though I like what Cuckoo's Nest does). I enjoy the art, I enjoy the characters, and both of those have grown on me pretty steadily, but I'd love to see some more MC on-screen. I can handle it when it's done in a 'sinister' way, with 'peril' or what have you, though if it goes into extreme humiliation or sadistic life-threatening shit I'd have to pass. Again, Cuckoo's nest does 'peril' but it's all pretty light-hearted. SJI is not, so much - the villains are fairly diabolical. And I guess I find it hard to be turned on when I see a female cast member being enslaved by someone who's basically Satan. I guess I'm just a worrier, lol.

For the record, 'consensual' mind control would be along the lines of voluntary bimboification, or a character who has always had a fascination with the idea being unwillingly subjected to it.

I do know that Daphne can go into depth with the mind control to a degree that's very, very intriguing; I recently re-read "Talked Me Into It" and was enthralled, again, by that story.

Also, has anyone here read Y by Fool's Page? I think I see echoes of it in Martian Harem, but Daphne and FP could certainly be drinking from the same well... but that story was pretty spectacular in the balance of peril and 'consensual' hotness, especially at the end.
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GodWilling
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« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2015, 02:29:01 pm »

The only instance we have seen of someone faking being under control (for any period) was Derek and Caitlyn at the airport.

I'm choosing to reap the maximum reassurance possible from the wording of that.

...Satan...

As I always say (probably at this very point in the conversation), I don't want SJI to be anything other than what Daphne wants it to be. This is just about not understanding people apparently being appalled at the prospect of, well, basically, plot. And plot that's likely to lead to the deployment of mind control at that.

I don't enjoy stories that appear to be written for the enjoyment of misogynists. But where someone without an mc fetish would draw that line is probably somewhere quite different to where I'd have it, if you see what I mean.

I found Caitlyn's encounter with Yves probably the hottest thing in the story so far. Having sex with Yves is not something I'd wish on anyone. And we don't know the full details of how much of that was planned. But the idea of a mind controlled woman spraying an innocent bystander with Pink Clouds and casually putting her into that situation... I mean, I don't know why that's hot but it is. And if, as a result, a fictional comic book character I like and would very much like to have sex with has to suffer that kind of indignity, then all I can say is: so be it.
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Haight
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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2015, 06:44:24 pm »

I don't enjoy stories that appear to be written for the enjoyment of misogynists. But where someone without an mc fetish would draw that line is probably somewhere quite different to where I'd have it, if you see what I mean.

I don't think that's quite what I mean; and while it's not my cup of tea, I don't think someone who enjoys, say, extreme humiliation is necessarily a misogynist. The part of our brain that turns us on does not answer to the part of our brain that says what's morally acceptable. Most people can modulate. I, myself, like master/slave scenarios... it doesn't mean I'd like women to be slaves. It just means me and my lady friend get to play pretend. So while some scenarios aren't turnons, I don't really think it says anything about the moral character of the people who are into them.

Hopefully more casual mind control in the future, though. It'd be nice of Kearsarge turned into the kind of place where you never now if you're going to get picked up by a mind controller... and you might not know, afterwards, if they erase your memory. It's kind of already halfway there.

As far as *plot* goes... too much conflict gets in the way of the MC, though I guess too little is boring. I think we just have different ideas about how much is best.

Hottest moments in SJI for me were Marliese's induction as well as Harem Night... go figure.
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GodWilling
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2015, 01:58:23 am »

I think actually we're saying more or less the same thing. I didn't bring up misogyny as a blanket response to you mentioning humiliation. My point about misogyny was that someone without the requisite fetishes might very well deem all mf md mc stories to be misogynistic. And there are some mc stories that I would class as being misogynistic. We all have a line; we'd all put it somewhere different. Essentially I'm kind of expecting bad things to happen to some of our SJI favourites. In as much as some of that will involve mind control, I'm looking forward to it. That doesn't mean I don't still like Caitlyn (or want to have sex with her (this is like Serge Gainsbourg and Whitney Houston now)).

"MC fetish" is a nebulous term. For me, if you need there to be sexual intercourse in an mc story for it to be satisfying then you don't have an mc fetish. That's just me, laying down the law. But the vagueness of the term means I see all kinds of stuff written by people with kinks I don't have. Some things leave me cold, some have me going "Hmmm...", and others make me shudder. I do suspect that for a lot of people reading these stories, mc is just a means to an end - an enabler for a different kind of kink to then be tweaked. Occasionally it works out that way for me too - there's more than one kink in my armoury. You win some, you lose some. I don't generally tell people I meet that I have an mc fetish; I don't judge the writers of stories with kinks I don't have. But sometimes not judging does involve throwing down the computer and running off for a long shower until I feel clean again.
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jmundt29
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« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2015, 01:43:24 pm »

I think we've had quite a bit of danger and necessary ingenuity without Jakob or his brother having control of the shells (yet).  I think it was just a visceral reaction to a material setback.  *shrugs*

It's possible that The Icelandic One is now a harem sleeper, just as Jakob has a mole in Johannes' side of the operation.

For the record--I don't see a cuddly loving relationship within the harem as any sort of punishment.  I doubt that I consider forcing Cherry to participate in one of Erin's "soft focus" scenes with Raven as a punishment (hah, hah).

I was thinking more along the lines of her being completely hollowed out (a completely blank slate), or suffering the continual humorous comeuppances like the Priestess in Cuckoo's Nest.
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GodWilling
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« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2015, 12:29:17 pm »

For the record--I don't see a cuddly loving relationship within the harem as any sort of punishment.

Absolutely. Which is why the prospect of the harem expanding doesn't particularly thrill me. It's someone losing control that I find hot - the induction. It's not that I particularly want the women to be punished; I just need there to be a sense that there's something at stake when that control is being lost. External threats aside, the harem seems like a utopian option. I probably wouldn't enjoy reading At Home With Jakob's Harem much either - for different reasons. But watching members of Adrian's harem being inducted into Jakob's could be very hot indeed. Caitlyn succumbing to Pink Clouds and the pendant already has been. Oddly, having a place within the cuddly harem at stake actually gives them something significant to lose.

I'd certainly like to see Cherry defeated by means of mind control. What happens to her after that is of less interest to me.
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