Saint James Infirmary 421: Besides That, How's Things?

[Daphne]

[jmundt29]

Who is that over her shoulder?  Is that Johannes and the Icelandic Import?  Is it crucial that they're eavesdropping on her?

[Tony]

I don't think Miel or Pat know that Pat has a daughter. I think Jacqui didn't want to bother the happy couple with her pregnancy rather than the story that Ezra gave Miriam.

I love it! It seems that not everything everybody says is true all the time. Great page with a bunch on implied conversation that we didn't really need to hear to get the meaning.

[Haight]

Adrian's mom tho.

[GodWilling]

It seems that not everything everybody says is true all the time.

I don't think Jacqui said anything that wasn't true in that regard in the current narrative. She did possibly tell Ezra back in '89 that the father didn't want anything to do with the baby. But then that would certainly be more likely to succeed than: "His other woman got pregnant too." So she'd probably have said that regardless of whether she'd told Pat and Miel about the baby. (And indeed it seems she did.)

[jmundt29]

It does?  This sounds like news to both of them.  Although Pat seems pretty chill with all of it.  Miel looks surprised and he looks calm...maybe pleased.  We...well, I could use thought bubbles in that last panel as much as speech bubbles.

They both seem decent enough, though.  All things considered.

[GodWilling]

It does?  This sounds like news to both of them.

And indeed it seems she did... tell Ezra that the father didn't want anything to do with the baby [even though she never actually told the father about it]. Keep up.

[Tony]

And indeed it seems she did... tell Ezra that the father didn't want anything to do with the baby [even though she never actually told the father about it]. Keep up.

Did she? We got that information second hand from Ezra, a lawyer. That was why I said that not everyone seems to be telling the truth. We don't know what she actually told Ezra, we only know what he told Miriam.

[jmundt29]

However, the exchange over the phone between Jacqui, Pat, and Miel also seems to partially contradict what Jacqui told Erin when she confessed who Pearl's father was.  Does that mean she didn't have the fantasy, had the fantasy but never told Pat the truth, or didn't fully spell things out before she disappeared with Ezra?  Or something else?

[GodWilling]

Did she? We got that information second hand from Ezra, a lawyer. That was why I said that not everyone seems to be telling the truth. We don't know what she actually told Ezra, we only know what he told Miriam.

The point I was making was this. (And yes, there's supposition here but I'm looking for the "minimum lying" case.) Put yourself in Jacqui's position in early '89. You find out you're pregnant. You come back to the happy home we probably got a glimpse of in 255. And there are Pat and Miel rejoicing because - guess what - Miel is pregnant. And - oh yeah - sorry we might need your room.

You give that nice Ezra a ring - hoping for one in return (just supposin'). You meet up in a diner (because 23 years later Ezra is going to find himself in a similar and related situation and it will make a neat call back). What do you tell Ezra?

"My guy's wife / other girlfriend is pregnant too. I don't want to tell them I am."

"I'm pregnant and he doesn't want to know."

? ? ? ?

421 tells us Jacqui didn't tell Pat and Miel, doesn't it? Why would she tell Ezra the truth? Either Jacqui lied to Ezra in '89 or Ezra lied to Miriam in 419. I know which I think is more likely. (But it is only that: more likely.)

We have absolutely no evidence that Ezra knows who the father is. If he did, he might have picked up on who Adrian is without having to be told. As I've said, my take on the conversation between Jacqui and Ezra in 418 is that Miriam is going to want to know who the father is and Ezra isn't going to be able to tell her: he can't tell her the full story; Jacqui will have to.

As far as we know, despite their little chat, Miriam still doesn't know she's Adrian's half-sister. Jacqui apparently recognizes that she needs to be told that. As I see it, she thoughtfully allowed Ezra to break the news to Miriam that he's not her father. But that was all he was able to tell her.


EDIT: Just to add

However, the exchange over the phone between Jacqui, Pat, and Miel also seems to partially contradict what Jacqui told Erin when she confessed who Pearl's father was.  Does that mean she didn't have the fantasy, had the fantasy but never told Pat the truth, or didn't fully spell things out before she disappeared with Ezra?  Or something else?

The "I probably should have run that idea by them first" line in 398 only need mean "before I got pregnant (at the same time as Miel)"; it doesn't have to mean "before I told them I was pregnant".

(And Jacqui does confirm in 393 that Ezra doesn't know who the father is.)

[jmundt29]

Yes, it could definitely mean that.  But what she told Ezra and what she told Erin taken together would seem to indicate that she approached them after it happened and was rebuffed.  The phone conversation makes it look like she fantasized about it, she got pregnant, and then found out Miel was pregnant and...couldn't work up the nerve to tell the happy couple she was also pregnant.  Understandable, but very different from the story (or part story) Ezra heard.  And now, we'll never know how they would have reacted.  I'm glad she made the choice she did because it led us here so far...and appears primed to lead us to other interesting places.  However, I can't square things up.

[Tony]

We don't know what she told Ezra. We only know what she told Erin and what Ezra told Pearl. And we don't know whether either was true though I'd tend to believe harem members telling each other things in general. Yet we already know that somethings that Dani told us at the beginning were not true. Any of this could also be.

[GodWilling]

Firstly, I have a suspicion this doesn't matter a jot to the plot.

Secondly, if it comes to it, we don't know anything about anything. I sometimes wonder if Daphne just made this whole thing up. Certainly anyone could be lying. I just think that the way to sniff out lies is to look for contradictions in what people are saying and I don't see any in what Jacqui and Ezra are saying in the current narrative.

Of course he may be lying. (He may actually be Miriam's real father.) But at this point I've absolutely no reason to think he is. Jacqui says he doesn't know who the father is. He says he doesn't know who the father is. If he doesn't know who the father is then what can he be hiding with the cover story that Jacqui was pregnant and the father didn't want anything to do with it?

But what she told Ezra and what she told Erin taken together would seem to indicate that she approached them after it happened and was rebuffed.

I can't see a reading of 421 that isn't Jacqui telling Pat and Miel for the first time that she had a daughter by Pat. I mean, maybe that daughter wasn't Miriam but... no.

So unless you've got a different take on that, Jacqui didn't tell them. And nothing in what she told Erin necessarily indicates that she told them - it still makes perfect sense if she didn't. The only contradiction here is that Ezra told Miriam that Jacqui told him that she had told the father. Either Ezra's lying, or Jacqui lied to him, or Jacqui's lying now and Miriam isn't Pat's daughter. My money's on a desperate, pregnant Jacqui lying about her circumstances.

[jmundt29]

To me, the most likely scenario seems to be

1. Jacqui is....holding something back from Erin that Ezra doesn't know because
2. She lied to Ezra about the reaction of Pearl's biological father (if only because it was easier to explain and left her in the same functional position as the truth...whatever that actually was).

However, Ezra is also holding something back from Pearl.  Technically, he may not know who Adrian's biological father is, so he doesn't know who Pearl's biological father is.  However, he has been told that Adrian is Pearl's half brother and didn't share it.

[GodWilling]

However, Ezra is also holding something back from Pearl.  Technically, he may not know who Adrian's biological father is, so he doesn't know who Pearl's biological father is.  However, he has been told that Adrian is Pearl's half brother and didn't share it.

That's true. But the way I see it Ezra not being Miriam's biological father is news he should have the right to break to her; the identity of Miriam's biological father is something Jacqui should have the right to tell her. I think it would have been wrong of Ezra to say: "Well, I don't actually know him but, well, maybe you do? Have you met Adrian's father...?" At this point I'm assuming that both Ezra and Jacqui get this and that Jacqui knows that Miriam doesn't know yet.