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Starter Marriage, Phase 4: Relationship Goals, coming January 1, 2025!

hype

A happy new year indeed

Just a note on progress…

* Thanks to the amazing work of our beta testers, it is coming along wonderfully. A particular shout-out to Hereno, who has been doing amazing work and invaluable in finding all kinds of bugs.

* Unlike the comics, launching a new phase of Starter Marriage is a manual process, so it will probably launch around noon Pacific on 1/1/2025.

Thanks!

That's a bit ambitious of a schedule for NYD XD

Seeing that this comic was getting a new installment prompted me to renew my subscription.  Although I guess I'll wait for hereno's prompts again before actually opening it up.

I would love to beta test, in case you're open to new testers ;)

Clearing my calendar on New Year's Day.

Since we are at T-1 week, I wanted to post some release notes:

• This phase not only extends the narrative, but adds to and changes other parts that came before. Some of the choices may lead in different directions now. There will be a lot to explore!
• Because of how many changes there are internally, when Phase 4 rolls out, any current position in the game or saved positions will be reset.

There is also a big new feature!

• Savepoints! You will be able to save up to five different positions in the game and switch between them, rather than just one as it is now.

We're very excited about this release!

I read that as Phase 4 concluding the narrative and was severely confused for a second before I realized you meant it appends to the existing narrative (while adding more divergences in existing scenes).

Excellent point! I've changed the text to be a bit more clear.

Amazing. Thank you!

I would have been happy probably with half of the things you've said. 5 saves will greatly help me "play" through each outcome, and knowing now that it's likely to be different anyway is exciting. There is apparently an image of a snake that I failed to reproduce.

I had already intended to start over and play as naturally as I would have just to see how that pans out. Though if memory serves my "natural" outcome was not my most preffered simply because it upset Allison a little bit.

With Daphne's permission, I'd like to tell you all a super minor but very important spoiler:
 
SPOILER: Unlike earlier chapters, Phase 4 is heavy on optional scenes. Meaning, it is quite possible (even probable?) to get a run through the new content that is quite brief. If this happens on your first run, don't worry: there's a lot of stuff in here, you just have to dig for it.

Are there any new pictures in the earlier retouched chapters?  Compared to the number listed in the posts where you've talked about that.  I will need to restart my 'how to find all the pictures' project.

Does this mean that finding scenes in this phase will unlock content in previous chapters?

The game is linear in the sense that each playthrough is independent, so something you do later in the game does not affect things that are available earlier in the game in a subsequent playthrough.

I've been playing around with this a bit recently

Still quite unclear how to trigger the scenes with

1.  The love potion
2.  The spell

Once or twice, I managed to have some dreams sequences involving Renee, but even here I'm kinda unclear how I ended up with these.  I THINK it involved discussions with Natalie, but I'm not 100% sure...

Looking forward to exploring this - but I don't seem to snore too move past the dream sequence at the end of chapter 3 even if I restart the story. It's this happening to anyone else or am I missing something?

An earlier post by Daphne. The TLDR would be wait til after 12pm PST.

Ah thanks for that! Bring across the pond is just seen it had gone live as a new comic. Thanks for the quick answer

Since it's on the front page right now I think a lot of people are getting confused. Would be helpful if there was some sort of indicator as to when it got released

I will post a note here. It'll be soon!

Phase 4 is up!

There's just so many routes. I'm curious what others have ended up on. My personal favorite so far has been the honest abe route while hypnotizing Allison to want big boobs. Up until the 2nd days end and I text Annie about seeing her again but only with explicit commitment the next morning. This seems to inevitably spiral to resuming your relationship with Lorelei, to which you then lie to Allisons face about it and get her permission for Lorelei in the future and fuck her all night. You can also in this route feel up Renee's boobs without getting a BJ from her. I'm uncertain if that's one of the new tweaks or not but is appreciated.

Basically... my favorite route crosses lines I wouldn't irl but definitely give a thrill exploring in fantasy.

Starter Marriage is a pretty amoral game. It's a good environment to put your scruples aside. :-)

Is this the right place to point out apparent inconsistencies?  Also is there a spoiler blocking method in this forum we should be using for the first while after the new release?

Yes, you can post them here. If you find things out during normal gameplay, you don't have to mark them as spoilers.

Personnaly, I like the "Unapologetic dom" route: just make the most of every sex scene, being extremely straightforward about it. I just tone down two times with bashfull truth: I reply "nothing important" at the start to "create" the affaire with Lorelei, and don't talk about Annie by phone to keep Allison a bit insecure. Coupled with some try to make the scenes with each girl the most domineering possible, it is enough to have complete dominance upon Allison by the end of phase 3 and install some powerplay with Lorelei, Renée and Annie.

 It also unlock the "fantasy" of Allison and I am surprised, because if you go all the way of Allison's fantasy, my MC finally say: "
This fantasy is so specific and unlike her that you wonder... You decide that it's time to move on, and you can talk to her about it in the morning."
 But at the start of phase 4, I don't find how to talk to her about it. I tried to delay or even deny the love scene, but to no avait. The rest of the phase is not played differently if I chose Allison's fantasy or the other more "traditional" form of control over her.
Maybe I took this fantasy a bit too seriously and it does not unlock some dark mysteries, or maybe it will be the topic of another phase later. But it is a bit frustrating to not know if it's an oversight or just normal development.

You can assume things like that are as-intended.

The thing that is getting me the most is what triggers the ring to be in the bathroom. If anyone figures that out it would be very helpful.

On a route int phase 4 where the MC meets Renee in the coffee shop and hypnotizes her, he has the option to take her to the restroom and take pictures.  After that when texting with Allison, she asks for pictures and MC says he doesn't have any.  At this point MC and Allison are being pretty open about everything that is going on and there's no reason to hide that there are fun pictures.

I wish I'd kept better notes in, jeez. 2022?

The Lorelei-Ring sequence is the darkest part of the multipath so far...

It gets darker.

You're kind of implying that Annie has some dark shit going on too...

This lead me down a rabbit hole. It seems clear that Dante, at a minimum, is responsible for some external mc occurring. Whether you lie to Allison or not at the start, she still wants to go with Dante or at expresses interest in him. Dante and Renee's house is also where you find Lorelei's ring, which seems to be invaluable to her ability to stave off any MC attempts. The fact she took it off while at their place suggests outside influence, which it's reasonable to conclude Dante's involvement with our current information. Perhaps im just stating the obvious here, but it has been fun to try and dissect the story from a readers pov. There is a fun gameing aspect because you can always restart and try new options. It's thanks to this that I found both Renee's Cafe scene and Lorelei's ringless mind control sequence which as far as i have tested seem to be mutually exclusive in that you can do one or the other. There is likely even more to discover if I was creative enough or wanted to be meaner throughout.

Lorelei's scene did feel particulalrly dark, given the circumstances. I understand that Mind Control is by definition a gray area morally but you can get up to some pretty heinous things this go around. Its just in stark contrast to the sex you can have with her having given the ring back, it is basically juat as raunchy except she's willingly doing it rsther than hypnotically so.The exception being of course the dom/sub degrees I suppose. Perhaps even that scene is just some latent programming we are yer unaware of.

Gets as in there's more brutal MC already in the extant content, or gets as in there will be still more brutal MC to come in 2027-or-whenever?  Annie's last texts imply that her ex gave her scars or facial tattoos or plastic surgery to make her resemble/match another woman, which is certainly a level of physical control and dehumanization that feels a bit beyond what's been seen so far, but that's yet to be implemented.

My attempts to piece things together, and I'm remembering now that this was an issue for me with the last release as well, is that information you get in one playthrough is not necessarily true in other playthroughs. Do you and Emma have a bit of sordid history in playthroughs where that doesn't come up? Does Renee always have the same job? Is Dante's whole deal the same on all paths through the game or is it adjusted as needed to complement you and your mind-controlling (or lack thereof)?

In phase 4, although it's within what I'd call the general MCC limits (such as they are).


This is correct. Some things are constant: The protagonist and Annie were always married and she left him, Allison is the protagonist's girlfriend, Renée and Dante are a couple, Renée had her boobs done recently, Emma is the protagonist's coworker, Lorelei and the protagonist have a sexual history. I would say that (in general, this is not absolute) the facts do not change nearly as much as the reasons and motivations. (One can split hairs over what is a fact and what is a reason or motivation, but that way madness lies.)

An example that may or may not actually be true (I'm not being coy, I don't remember and haven't gone through the code to find out), it may be a constant that the protagonist and Emma made out at some point, but the reasons for it and how the event is remembered by either party can change. And some facts are subject to change playthrough to playthrough.

And it bears repeating that Starter Marriage is 100% deterministic (make what philosophical hay of it that you will :-) ). The same choices in the same order always produce the same result. The random bits that there are do not affect any outcomes.

I'm going to bite: I don't really get why her sequence is "darker" than, say, what you're doing to Allison? I suppose it depends on the run. But I mean... this is a fetish about non-consensually mind controlling people into being slaves. It's all dark. (I like the dark stuff.)

I guess I'd say there's a line between "please don't mind control me I don't want to be mind controlled I specifically don't want to feel powerless in that specific way" and "gee whillickers I sure hope nobody hypnotizes my sweet soft pliable mind while I lay it out on this windowsill to cool *innocent whistling*"  Although that's me being a little silly. It's true that Allison is not giving fully informed consent, but enslaving Lorelei (or trying to) seems to be crossing a boundary she's staked out as one she doesn't want crossed.

I guess I don't think any character (in SM or, really, MCC) is doing this. You don't have to say "Don't do this to me": that's assumed. So any use of MC is dark in my mind.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, I absolutely loved Lorelei's stuff in this chapter.

One of the reasons I love this kind of multipath story is that you get to provide a wide range of MC "flavors" in a way that no other medium can really do. It probably never gets to quite the light playfulness of EU, but otherwise, I think there's a pretty good selection on offer.

I wouldn't say that sort of eagerness is never present in MCC material though it definitely isn't the default and I don't disagree that nobody in Starter Marriage is in such a mode, just that there's a spectrum of how brutal the MC can be. But yes, I agree re Lorelei.

Has anyone figured out how to progress the date with Emma? I get the sense there’s a way to not make her leave, but I haven’t found it.

So, first, I can confirm that hypnotizing Renee and Lorelei are not mutually exclusive, and neither is exclusive to hypnotizing Allison at breakfast. Also, though, I am spending far too much time considering Gremlin's reaction to how you program Lorelei. I can't decide if I think the reactions are meant to be an indicator of your dom stat, or if Gremlin, Lorelei or both are supernatural in some way (given the presence of the snake incubus in another route, supernatural stuff is obviously not off the table).

I love this. :-)

Chekhov's gun et cetera, I could have believed you just win the cat over once you program her, but the change in reactions, and being so drastic, feels very intentional to me.

After establishing that you are skilled at hypnosis you can have Emma take deep breaths etc until you get a chance to implant some suggestions -- only one of which can come into play before the end of the chapter, if I understand correctly.

Can anyone who has gotten the date with Emma confirm a few things for me? Namely, whether they had the option to pick up the ring at Renee and Dante's, whether they saw Renee at the coffee shop and whether they were able to hypnotize Lorelei?

Honestly it gave me the impression that Gremlin does not have Lorelei's best interests in mind, heh.


You really missed an opportunity to fuck with people.

Yeah, I had a playthrough where I was able to hypnotize Allison, Renee, Emma, and Lorelei. Still trying to figure out what exactly prompts Allison to be hypnotized though, it seems required for the others.

Interesting, my first question is how did you get her to agree to get coffee before the trip, because I seem to only be able to get an agreement for after I return.

A big congrats to Daphne and everyone involved in producing this! I can’t imagine the amount of work and brain-frying code it took to produce this and make it run smoothly, while still being an immersive and hot story.

I’d also appreciate any pointers on how to get to a stage where you can overtly hypnotise people in the new chapter. While I’ve been able to get into Allison into trance state in Chapter 4, and did manage to hypnotise Renee with my cock in the cafe bathroom, I haven’t discovered any more scenes along those lines. I get the sense I may have to deviate from my usual routes to get there.

I think I found a piece of content in chapter 4 that's new, Allison as tradwife. Now, though, I'm trying to replicate a thing I eventually managed with hereno's advisement in 2023, get Allison to declare herself your sex slave without Annie being your sex slave as well, and the method I claimed worked in 2023 doesn't (more likely my bad note-taking than a change to the content).

Thank you! (And thanks to PK and MS for their amazing art.)

I'm not quite understanding what you mean? Unless you mean how to get the Lorelei and Emma scenes, because you seem to have achieved the Allison and Renee scenes.

Since this is from earlier chapters, I can answer these.

The Allison tradwife path ("Let's talk about you being my maid" through four stages) is old; was there all along.

There's a couple paths to Allison's self-declaration as slave, but an easy one is to get the explicit commitment out of Annie and then reject her.

Ok, I am going to need some help getting the scene with Emma, I can get the fantasy of her blowing me after talking with her, but not the encounter with her in the final chapter. I've tried telling Lorelei about her and not telling Lorelei about her, and I'm not seeing what else connects with her.

Well, I've hypnotized Emma in the cafe and on a seperate playthrough, at work. I want to know if it's possible to do both

Obviously Allison's MC is "non consensual mind control" too, and in real life it would be similarly awful, but MC erotica in my mind has lots of "gradients". At least prior to chapter four:

A. It's (still) very ambiguous exactly who is actually masterminding Allison's changes throughout the story, or whether the MC realizes that the thing he's doing is working. The "tell me what you're thinking" option suggests that Dante or someone else is the one making major changes to your wife, not you.
B. Your relationship with Allison gets going before the story begins, so the reader doesn't really feel it as much. Something about the firsf meeting with Lorelei, where you're sharing secrets and getting advice, feels more intimate than the conversations with your wife, especially if you're hiding things from Allison at that stage in the game
C. Allison doesn't visibly protest what's happening to her until chapter 4, and then not very 'ferociously'; often before chapter 4 she practically begs you to keep going

On the other hand, in the ring sequence with Lorelei: Here is an old friend, a friend who trusts you, coming to you dejected, terrified and afraid of what Dante and them will do to her, now that she doesn't have the item you stole... Lorelei, your beautiful, unique confidant, a gem among women, who is doing her damnednest to maintain her agency despite the circumstances... To turn such a wonderful person into Yet Another Sex Slave... My heart breaks <\3

Think my 'canon' playthrough going forward is going to be a ring return to Lorelei and then protecting her from Dante and them. I have a feeling that actually picking up the ring inbetween chapter 2 and 4 for safekeeping could be necessary for a good ending in the future.

I totally like the dark stuff too just FYI. Just tryna explaining my emotional reaction to internet porn  :P

Crafting the story through the different playthroughs is the best part for me! Daphne is a great writer, and there are all these little nuggets of information for people with an eye for details.

I thought the (paraphrasing) "Why did you leave the ring in the bathroom, deems unlike you" - "I don't know why I did either" back and forth during the ring sequence was suggestive of her being specifically manipulated into leaving the ring at Dante's place...

Interesting, I have done what I thought was a max-Dom play through with all four of Lorelei, Emma, Renee, Allison MCd, but didn't notice anything more significant than the Lorelei one yet...

How did you get Emma to show up? Like, did you have any indication the scene was coming?

I finally got it to work.

That's right! Though I think someone else mentioned hypnotizing Allison at breakfast, which I haven't had the option to do yet. As for the other two, I can get the coffee date with Emma to some heavy flirting and an invite to the party, but nothing like explicitly hypnotizing her. And for Lorelei, I can take keep the ring from her but don't get an option to control her. Though given how utterly anxious and sad she looks (thanks to Plutonian Knight's and MS's art here!), I'm not sure I'll have the heart to!

One thing I am intrigued about is Dante's character and motivations - is he always a (probably) malevolent force and exerting control or others? Or is he sometimes just a kinky poly guy? And if he is malign, to what extent is Renee an accomplice, given her own hypnosis skills? I get the sense this is connected as to whether the ring shows up or not. Of course I could be completely wrong, but that's the fun of it.

Yes, Lorelei's felt much darker because at least from the player's perspective you have a sexual/romantic relationship from the past and as you've stated she seems to have some kind of magical/paranormal/ward attached to the ring and she's trusted you to confide in. Allison, as much as I enjoy her, feels like a blank slate/canvas for the player to mould comparatively. At least in terms of the "game" mechanics. I dislike being dishonest with Allison too, but that's partly because everytime I choose dishonesty and lying about your affair with Lorelei but then ask Allison if she's done anything with anyone else she at least seems to claim that no, you're her only partner right now and you generally get a shocked expression from her. Whether this is true, or if she's been manipulated by an external factor like Dante or Renee, has yet to come to fruition.

There is an important distinction with Allison in that she is your current girlfriend and publicly people know this, as compared to Lorelei who seems to be a side fling/soulmate situationship? Unclear. You know The relationship with Allison is public because of the interactions with Emma.

There seems to be something quite nefarious brewing with the Dante/Renee storyline, but I suspect now after a few more runs that Renee might be the actual mastermind as she claims Dante is submissive to Lorelei, and is the only woman he's been submissive to.

Granted maybe all of this "meta" knowledge is pointless, and what the characters say to you is only relevant to that particular playthrough. The only constant Ive been able to trigger is that Lorelei's mind control sequence is locked if you give her back her ring.

I can't seem to figure out how to hypnotize Emma. Everything else I seem to understand or at least have a chain to follow to guarantee hypnosis/master/slave dynamic but she eludes me. Even Renee's bathroom scene i can get consistently.

I am curious if Allison being a sex-slave in the morning is required, as sp far the only times I have gotten Emma to be at coffee and the rest of the hypnosis scenes is if I've jacked Allisons libido up too.

Also, you can hypnotize her at work? In all my playthroughs I've never seen that. The amount of options in this comic/game is quite incredible. No wonder it took so long to release.

I suppose on that note, is there more to Allison and the master/slave dynamic before Dante and Renee's? I only ever get her to call me Master (without having said to) where it catches the player off gaurd.

There's additional scenes with Lorelei if you've taken the ring/triggered the ring scenes from Dante and Renee's and established yourself as an overtly mindcontrol focused character. It allows you to hypnotize Lorelei, leading to both her Kneeling and giving you a BJ, and potentially anal if you so desire. I also had to deviate from my "cannon" playthrough to even know this was possible, as my standard options only lead to me giving the ring back to Lorelei (something I was happy to do).

The scene that eludes me so far is anything with Emma beyond a casual /slightly flirty cafe. I don't get any prompts for a hypnosis or more flirty thing to her no matter which options I've gone with. Nothing overt like the options for the other women whom I have been "successful" in dominating anyway.

Discussion questions, probably I will come up with more.

1 I vaguely recall that there's a way to navigate the first scene that includes you telling Allison to get her breasts enlarged that doesn't result in her snapping abruptly out of trance, but I can't find it now. Am I misremembering? I may be remembering her getting more open to anal depending on your approach?

2 I've found three outfits for Emma on Thursday, two of which might be the same outfit presented in two different poses. I've gotten you to hypnotized Emma at the coffee shop but saw a reference to you hypnotizing her at work, is that a thing?

3 One time I managed to have you hypnotize Renee in the coffee shop (not in the restroom) and another time they've play-acted with you waggling your cock in her face in the restroom which didn't seem like Renee actually entering a trance state. Is there more to that?

4 Daphne suggested there was something more brutal than the scene where you hypnotize and attempt to enslave Lorelei. Brutality is in the eye of the beholder but I haven't seen anything that seems plausibly like what she's talking about, anybody have anything?

5 I don't remember what sets Lorelei off on Wednesday that leads to her spinning the incubus story, though eighteen months ago I'd figured it out. Also the only pre-chapter-5 new content I've stumbled across is a brief sequence while you hypnotize Allison late Wednesday night, where you can push her into a "tradwife" fantasy. Anyone have anything there?

6 Speaking very generally my perception is that the paths through the game mostly don't have mutually exclusive scenes (you don't have to choose between coffee with Emma and coffee with Renee, for instance) and that there aren't any sex scenes you can lock yourself out of by opting for a different sex scene instead (obviously you can only redeem the voucher with Allison once, but not getting the voucher doesn't as far as I know unlock an otherwise-hidden scene where Allison helps you seduce Emma, or anything like that). Am I wrong?

Hypnotizing Emma in the café, while possible, is one of the "narrowest" paths in the game to date (in that there is the least variation of choices that will lead to it), so don't feel you're missing something obvious. :-)

Might have gotten buried down below:

This is old too, so I'll answer: pretty sure Allison always snaps out of it when you ask about her boobs. No way around that.

With anal, she can suggest starting with a finger sometime.

Generally: she's most receptive if you go through all the "speed" options (you have a long sex session) and you don't stop to look at your phone.

This is largely true of women in real life as well.

No spoilers!

Question Daphne, for those of us who didn't beta test, are we allowed to guide people to certain options? Or is that also something you would prefer wait the 2 weeks?

There are no restrictions on what you can say here. I asked Hereno to hold back for a bit because of his inside information.

1 I must have been misremembering! I also thought that she was more receptive to anal if you went through to her second orgasm, but checking just now I see I was wrong about that, also.
5 I guess in the past I stopped the tradwife fantasy before getting all the way to the end of it, as I am pretty sure I hadn't seen the very end of it before.

Well, at least now I know I've just gotta deviate further from my preffered routes. I haven't yet figured out if causing Allisons hypnotism in the morning of this phase 4, instead of overnight, is the requirement. Frankly, I don't even remember how I got her to that state in the first place.

I don't expect people to know this answer necessarily,  but I just wanted to throw it out there in case somebody does establish it that isn't Hereno.

For me, getting Emma hypnotized at the cafe required achieving what I believe is the max dom route, and also not being interested in sharing. Essentially if you can get to the route where you hypnotize Allison to be faithful after visiting Renee and Dante, you should? be good, but if that isn't the case I can spell out more fully what I did.

One thing I did notice, there is an indicator after your Emma chat, and when you talk with Lorelei, the Emma chat will say something along the lines of you aren't sure of her intentions with the offer or somesuch, and when you bring her up with Lorelei, she will not comment on you not knowing when a woman is off limits, going for a different line, which I now forget.

Yeah, you hypnotize her at work after the cafe. Not sure what I did to cause it. Plus if you do it at work, you can give her Renee's card which I'm sure will be helpful down the line. I just got to one different outfit for Emma. I didn't even know there were different outfits til I saw your post

Basically what I did was have to ask very specific questions to be able to hypnotize her at the cafe. One was asking about her project and then ot gives you a few things to say and you need to make sure you say the right thing. Wrong thing and she leaves. Basically keep asking questions that keep her happy to talk and after a while say deep breaths. I recommend saving before starting the conversation with Emma and restoring to be able to do the right choices. That's basically how I did it

Renee's card? How do you get that?

As an aside, I'm very curious if Renee is always a controlling force like she is in the one route where Lorelei is scared of going to the party (iirc facts, like Renee's job, are always the same), but for now she is deff the character that has interested me the most, no small part because hypnotizing the hypnotherapist is incredibly hot.

You have to establish that you're capable of hypnosis first, though

Finally was able to hypnotize Lorelei. Turns out I just needed to be worse

So, at first I thought it was a bug, but now I'm wondering, there are a few times where decisions during entirely separate conversations, in different chapters, will result in the same image appearing. Are these different instances of unlocking that option/aspect/route?

Cook naked, collared Annie photo, don't talk to Allison about Annie, tell Emma she would get along with Allison, tell Lorelei you've been hypnotizing Allison, tell Lorelei about Emma, get three blowjobs from Allison and Renee, use your magic fingers on Allison to encourage her wanting to share you with other women, hypnotize Allison in the morning, meet Emma for coffee, hypnotize Emma. I've gotten her to flash you and to text you a nude, I imagine that's as much as there is in terms of content in this chapter as opposed to setup for phase 5.


I don't keep good enough track to determine what determines whether a) you hypnotize Renee into giving you a blowjob in the coffee shop restroom, b) Renee gives you a blowjob in the restroom without hypnosis happening, c) Renee tells you she's a hypnotherapist, or d) none of these things happen.  There's a path where Renee gives you her business card and then afterwards you use that as a prop to hypnotize Emma at work? I'd love to hear more about that.


None of the stuff with Emma or Renee that I've found comes close to the Lorelei sequence so this is still an open question. I did at one point manage to set it up so that you receive an anonymous ring emoji text message in Dante and Renee's bathroom, which alerts you to Lorelei's ring, which raises the question of who on earth would be in a position to do that and why they would.


I'm sure I could work back to this if I poke at it but I'm more curious about the pre-Chapter 5 new content that's been mentioned. It may be small adjustments that I simply haven't noticed (I admit I don't read too carefully when I'm going through yet another playthrough), rather than full, previously-absent scenes.

I had forgotten that if you keep your antics sufficiently vanilla the game ends at the close of Chapter 4, as you and Allison simply settle into domestic bliss. It's a nice touch.


If there's a situation where leaving Lorelei's ring, for instance, unlocks something later on you miss if you're distracted by comforting/enslaving your longtime lover, I haven't seen it. Or one where skipping the face-to-face meeting with Lorelei on Wednesday unlocks something...?

I don't think it's a bug, rather there are multiple scenes which can trigger memories or fantasies that are similar enough to one another they can be illustrated the same way.

For Renee telling you shes a hypnotherapist, as far as I've seen it depends on you complimenting her boobs/asking how her work is, verses thanking her for the blowjob. Not to say this is the only determinant, but that seems to influence it.

I haven't seen it and don't know if it exists, but on the morning of the last chapter, it's possible to get a scene where Allison asks if you're doing anything to her. Is it possible to be able to tell her that you are doing something to her instead of dancing around the issue?

The only options I've seen there are "dance around the issue" and "dance around the issue leading into hypnotizing her and having sex with her."

I also have never seen an "yes I'm hypnotizing you". It's only ever sway her further or not.

Ive managed a, idk what to call this, full harem run? Shocking I'm sure to everyone present but if you are a bit manipulative at the start by choosong "nothing important" and tell Lorelei you are using hypnosis , and then taking the ring at Dante and Renees it seems by chapter 4 you can get every female you've been able to interact with to be your sex slave or at least en route. I was able to even get Emma under hypnosis on this particular route, both at the cafe to give initial instructions and she flashed me at the office afterwards despite not explicitly asking her to do so. I did not ever get Renee's business card, so perhaps there's other routes still to be found but I am pleased as punch to have finally cracked Emma.

As Flintnsteal here put it, perhaps Dominant Harem is the best name for this particular playthrough and tempo.

Huh, I tried (immediately after hypnotizing Emma into falling in love with you) complimenting Renee's boobs like a horndog and this was enough to put her into a trance, which I am pretty sure was a different route to hypnotizing her than I've used before. It was followed up with Emma flashing you at work (as a knock-on of her falling in love not as the direct result of a hypnotic command), which I hadn't seen before either.

That sequencing for those two is atm what I'm keeping for my cannon route, (I'm a fake boobs girl, what can I say). I had a question though, for you, if you *didnt* make Emma fall in love with you, choosing one of the other suggestions for her, were you able to trance Renee?

We have such delights to show you.

I mean Renee is out and away my fave character so, yknow, legitimately any Renee content I am here for. Also Allison is going down that path because of course she is :P.

The posing of the photographs for Annie leads me to believe, well...

So I can’t remember the details because I’ve only gotten this to work on a pre-2024 save that didn’t get wiped.  But I had a coffee date with Emma where she agreed to a dinner date after I got home from Annie’s; I got a blowjob from Renee in the cafe and learned she was a hypnotherapist.  Back at the office, I found that Renee had slipped her business card into my pocket; I then hypnotized Emma at her desk to schedule an appointment with Renee and had the option to either hypnotize her to love me (which leads her to flash me) or to flash me (which leads her to get very confused and leave awkwardly).

Interesting! I don't suppose you recall anything about your relationship with Lorelei in that play through?

I agree with the heavy implications that Annie has undergone some form of plastic surgery. If you have picked any of Renee's/ the implant options throughout,  she texts about her "melons", the pictures you get don't reveal her top half, and even Renee mentions that prior to your breakup Annie had discussed wanting surgery directly to her. The in character response is always "she never told me", but if I had to bet I'd certainly wager in favor of Annie having gone through some extensive changes since her older photos. She herself mentions "in case you don't recognize me" at the end of this phase. Not to mention the mysterious Paula character who almost certainly has implants too, given her size and that genetically few women get that big naturally, shows our main character has a history with implants.

I don't know that I'm strictly into augmentation, but it is the real world equivalent and most direct method of breast expansion and fits the objectification fetish that I've come to terms enjoying so I am conflicted. On one hand, I love big boobs. Implants nowadays even naked are not the 90s versions. Some manage to look quite nice even without accentuating clothing. On the other,  I am perhaps irrationally pro naturalism and find attractive qualities and beauty in the more mundane aspects of feminity. There is a sexual appeal to a woman who has implants because it's a statement of "yeah that's right I paid for these" but equally sexy is a woman confident in the body they've been born in.

If there's a way to have Allison get bigger boobs without surgery presented in this series, that will almost assuredly become my preffered routing. Starter Marriage blurs the line between fairly realistic interpretation of such a relationship/scenario with the super natural, as all the hypnotism scenes imply a more mystical state of conscious existing. As of yet, I havent found any route implying much breast focus if you ignore any implants though, which is fair. I don't necessarily expect BE ala magic science or just plain magic in every MC medium I just enjoy when it's there.

Flesh for Fantasy is an excellent recent source to point at to explain what I like/am looking for. As I've stated numerous times now on other forum posts the actual breast expansion I scour the internet for almost always is actually about the sexual submission it tends to be accompanied, portrayed, or written along side.

This is just speculation but my best guess is that Paula was your college girlfriend -- the background in the images looks to me like a dorm room -- which implies that her tits are natural, not enhanced.

It would be really hot if her tits were natural. But, either way, I’m sure the content is going to be amazing.

Two questions

1.  How do I get the option to condition Allison to be completely faithful to me?

2.  How do I get Emma to meet me for a coffee date?  (I've been able to trigger imagining her nude and remembering a blow job, but never the date)

thanks

If you mean in Ch. 4: The Girlfriend Experience, that one's a bit tricky. But if you do a little (not a lot) of MC and constantly worry that Allison is cheating on you, that ought to get you there.

Ok, so! Hereno has a sequence posted in the Phase 3 discussion, on page 8, which is how I learned how to do it, but, I'll write out my path here, this will accomplish both tasks:

Start
Now is not the time.

Speed up --> Slow Down --> Just right --> Speed up  --> Stop.

The next two choices seem fairly free for preference, I pick the maid route, so cook and serve dinner naked, followed by speaking of swallowing.

Tell Allison the text is nothing important.

After Allison wakes you up with sex, I choose to go see what's going on in the shower, but I believe this to also be a free preference choice.

Important You have free choice after breakfast to either call Annie or check on the internet as far as I know, but do not contact Lorelei yet.

When talking with Annie I choose the hypnosis route, so being as antagonistic to her as possible aka, You are still pissed --> point out its the guy she left you for --> ask why she is contacting you now.

I haven't tested the next choice, but given how this route is you being as controlling as possible, just saying you will think about it seems the best option.

Do not call Allison, just get back to work.

You can mention the Annie situation to Allison, but if you do, she will be angry when you say she cannot date Dante rather than sad, and the anger seems to be more resistant, thus, I choose to not, and instead cuddle with her.

Talking with Annie again, be as resistant to the idea as possible without outright denying it, so; You still can't believe she is asking after what she did  --> You are listening  --> Inquire what kind of apology  --> Comment how this sounds like more than just paper work  --> Demand explicit commitment  --> double check via "Really?" I chose to select really because the sign off message sounds more controlling when you do, but this may be a preference point.

Now text Lorelei, one thing you want to avoid according to Hereno's guide is committing to telling Allison about you and Lorelei, so I choose Its been a while since we've --> Just want to spend an afternoon together.

Now for Emma, the big thing here is you want to invite her to coffee away from work, and say Allison can come along. I accomplish this by saying you are reminding them you still work there  --> Saying Allison is great and asking about her SO --> You can express sympathy and ask what happened, again, as far as I can tell this is personal preference --> Invite her to coffee --> Confirm Allison will be joining. If you are successful you will have a line saying you aren't sure what Emma meant by the invitation.

Next is the date with Lorelei, I exhaust the dialogue here except for committing to tell Allison about the affair, but the key thing is you need to comment that you suspect Allison to be cheating --> Say how she seems to be pushing you to Annie --> It would be very upsetting if she were with another man.

When you have sex with Lorelei, if you want the option to hypnotize her as well, as far as I can tell you must do all the options for sex, so start with eating her out --> finger her --> ask for a blowjob --> take her.

Use the voucher just before entering Renee and Dante's.

The second step in unlocking Lorelei, go to the bathroom, and then I take the ring because I want it on my person rather than somewhere else, but I do not know if this is mandatory.

When talking with Renee, declare you are hypnotizing Allison as I believe this is the only opportunity in this path to cement that you are skilled at hypnosis.

The after blowjob conversation and pointing out Paula or not seem to be personal preference.

The final key step, tell Allison you are not comfortable with her seeing Dante --> confirm Renee gave you a blowjob --> tell Allison next time you will order her to join --> Roadside blowjob.

Excusing yourself to the bathroom or not should also be personal preference, I do, and then you should be able to hypnotize Allison to be faithful to you, and have a date with Emma at the coffee shop.

If there are any adjustments to formatting that would be beneficial, or specific areas I assumed to be preference that are not actually so, please let me know! (Also sorry for how big this post is)

thanks very much

Not much.  I usually don’t heavily interact with Lorelei.  I know she didn’t summon me to her place during chapter 4 to ask about the ring.  It was probably more of a “good boyfriend” type play through.  I’ve been doing more dominant playthroughs and mostly have not had Emma propose coffee during chapter 4.  Sadly, since she and Renee and Allison are my favorites.

Like a new game plus, I've been attempting routes that deviate dramatically from what I like to pick normally. Due to this, I have further found evidence that Renee is likely the pants wearer of Dante and Renee's relationship, and also the source of hypnotism to Allison, probably Dante, and potentially many others. Effectively, if you only lightly hypnotize Allison and don't lean into the slut/whoring/sharing aspect, answer to Annie's beck and call, and then ignore Lorelei until the current final arc, Lorelei will both express her concern for you turning Allison into another Annie, and also her concern that Dante/Renee have already started doing whatever seemed to have caused Annie to dissapear to Allison. It was a noteworthy scene, as Lorelei is otherwise quite calm with the player character but at its conclusion here Lorelei passionately kisses you,  something that is explicitly pointed out not to occur in the many, many sex scenes you can get with Lorelei otherwise. I really should log my "runs" better like a speedrunner would have splits but I was curious if anyone else had unlocked this partiuclar Lorelei scene.

Curiously, there is fairly sufficient evidence that Allison has been or is being manipulated by somebody even if you yourself choose to do effectively nothing yourself. This Lorelei kiss scene further confirms this hypothesis. While it doesn't mean she has explicitly cheated on you, it can mean that if you ask about her faithfulness prior and she answers "I’ve only had sex with you" that in itself could be some hypnotism trigger response.

Fascinating! Trying to replicate this (anal, weird ex, shower, straight to work, not talking to Allison about Annie's request, telling Annie you'll come if she's your slave which there doesn't seem to be an alternative to, flirting with Emma because I can't *not* do that, skipping the bathroom, telling Allison I don't want her to sleep with Dante, fingering Allison into telling me about her enslavement fantasy) didn't lead to a scene of Lorelei spilling tea about Renée but did lead to a t-shirt clad Emma meeting you for coffee and your getting the chance to hypnotize her, which in turn led to a t-shirt clad Emma flashing her tits, which I had assumed couldn't happen.

It runs into the problem of reality not being the same from run to run necessarily -- my best guess at the moment is that the answer to the questions about who is ultimately behind Allison's changed behavior (and Annie's leaving you, years ago) is that it's in a state of quantum uncertainty between "you and your at best semideliberate sexual hypnosis" and "Dante/Renée or a third person, because you haven't evinced sexual hypnosis powers." Which means other details must be variable as well, for narrative consistency (when DID you meet Renée??)


ADD: I tried again and got something similar to what's described, but Lorelei spoke more vaguely about concerns rather than pointing the finger at Renée and Dante.

So, for the geeks out there, I have to share this: There is a custom programming language inside of Starter Marriage (technically, in the framework, "Cyan"). Because, of course, when a programmer embarks on a new application, the first thing you do is create a custom programming language. (It's mostly Python, but there is in fact a not-quite-Turing-complete programming language that it uses to route actions.)

I am deeply amused that Lorelei's cat is completely fine with me turning her into a slave but making her fall in love with me? That's apparently over the line. I also found at least one ending, it's the most boring ending ever like the story is saying shame on you for not fucking at least three other women besides your girlfriend! I do kind of hate all the scrolling one must do to get the result of the next choice. This is especially notable in Lorelei's section where you are trancing her.

Love it.

I noticed this too. Slave? Happy. Whore her out to Dante and Renee? Pet me please.

Fall in love with me? Get that fucked up sappy shit out of my fan fiction haha.

There is the mysterious text thst you can get if you effectively decline Annie and don't contact Lorelei. Ive yet to figure out a path where hypnotizing Allison doesn't also lead to you getting a blowjob from Renee. Perhaps I just subconsciously want a blowjob from Renee.

There's also a point talking to Annie where she mentions your girlfriend by name, after you say "I need to talk to my gf". I think this implies some social media sleuthing/cyber stalking behavior? Or possibly linked to the mysterious ring text? At this point I'd just like to see what happens after this section already.

I managed to get a different Renee coffee scene than my prior attempts. I think I get semi hypnotized by her boobs and discuss what the party will be about? Just amusing to try for the many... many routes.

Just to confirm, save points remember what your.... stats are for want of a better term. Like, I have a save point for a full harem hypnotism run, and a save point for a boon run, and these will keep their appropriate progression?

Yes. A savepoint captures everything about the state of the story at that point.

I can't decide if for my "not totally amoral run" I wanna do a boon run or a hypnotism run. The specifics are, for now, I'd be giving Lorelei back her ring, claiming Annie, Allison and Renee (get bent Dante she's mine), and I'm not sure what I am doing yet with Emma and Paula. Curious peoples thoughts.

Ok, I’m guessing your libido is the driving force behind whether you get to take Emma to coffee.  Just got to hypnotize her and Renee at the cafe. (And Lorelei confirmed my control over Renee).  I didn’t get a blowjob from Emma, and I’m not into sharing, and I didn’t have the option to shut down Allison with Dante in the car or on Thursday night, but otherwise this is close to a perfect run for me.  I wish I’d written everything down but here are some notes.  I’ll see if I can replicate it.

This was a very high dom & libido / collar/ maid run which is based on what flintsteal posted earlier in this thread but with my time with Lorelei focused on getting her to take seriously my hypnosis skills and suggest I hypnotize Emma (which she blurts out during missionary) instead of setting up a concern about Allison cheating.

Also got some side effects that I didn’t program: Allison wanted to get boobs at least as big as Renee’s when we texted from work on Day 4 (I think because we discussed them extensively at Dante’s) and Emma flashed me after I implanted the love and put out on the first date suggestions.

I ignored the text, maxed out the time in sex before doing the special thing, asked Allison to serve dinner nude, avoided telling Allison the text was from Annie or about Annie’s plight until the game made me (I think a phone call from work before I went home to Dante and Renee’s, with Allison basically pushing me into Annie’s bed without prompting). I ignored the memories of Annie in favor of Allison’s shower, generally pushed Allison for an explicit commitment and did not simp for her, told Lorelei I wanted to come to see her, avoided committing to discussing her with Allison (until the protagonist just said it without me making a choice after sex), told her I’d hypnotized Allison, (which she took seriously instead of scoffing that she would be on her back right now if I had hypnotic powers) and I also brought up Emma During missionary, Lorelei suggested using my powers on Emma.

Annie’s text in the car was subby even for Annie (something like “top the shit out of me when you come, Master)”. I used the voucher in the bushes before entering Dante’s. I took the ring and played with Renee’s boobs before the kitchen blowjob. When Allison asked if I allowed her to fuck Dante I asked if she wanted to.  I got the roadside blowjob, skipped the phone, did the special thing for programming her to accept other women.  It was the first time Emma was included in the picture during the programming.  (I want to go back and see what happens if I ask questions in the trance instead, as at least one time I’ve gotten Allison to say she would contact Emma and tell her how great a fuck I am.)

During the dream, I got Paula in college and both Emma illustrations.  Allison fell into a trance at breakfast where I convinced her all was normal.  We fucked afterwards.  I texted everyone but Annie at work because I wanted to wear the ring to coffee with Renee.  Emma in the blue dress invited me to coffee (standing straight up, not leaning over/leaning). Once the option to hypnotize Emma starts to appear - Emma brings up her work challenge on her own - it seems the game checks your skills.  If you quickly bring her into a trance when the opportunity arises (relax, breath work, breathe deep etc) rather than insert a bunch of conversation into your induction, I think you can pick two instructions.  I started with falling in love with me and changing her mind about sex on the first date.  In playing around with this a bit, your ability to hypnotize Emma smoothly also impacts your ability to hypnotize Renee later.  When I only got one command in, or Emma did not accept a command (sending a nude selfie), I couldn’t hypnotize Renee using the route below.

I wanted to be wearing the ring with Renee because she is Dr. Laurel and will try to hypnotize you (I think into getting Emma to set up an appointment with her). Boobs are dangerous so I tried to avoid focusing on them.  I thanked her for what happened in the kitchen and then had the option to tell her something I wanted to do, where I was able to hypnotize her into either answering one question or blowing me in the bathroom. Then you implant a trigger and wake her up.  (In my run, You can choose between learning that Dante bottoms for Lorelei, or that nothing happened between Dante and Allison other than an agreement to ask you if they could play. If you go to the bathroom, I failed to use the hypnocock on Renee but, if you choose to come on her tits, you will have a picture Allison wants to see).  I gave the ring back to Lorelei, who was super subby but did not grant a boon and asked me not to abuse my control over Renee.  At work, Emma flashed me, left a SFW note in my cubicle, and send a flirty text.

What is the wording for her confirming Renee being under your control?

If you want to reduce the sharing with Dante, one suggestion.  Do not watch Allison in the shower.  Hereno's research says that pushes her in the sharing direction.  Try either Natalie (poly but only women) or nothing at breakfast.

There are two end states I want, given what we know so far.  It looks like one is possible.  Unfortunately the other is looking less like it'll be an option.

The one that looks most like it fits in with what Daphne is writing is love spell route with you and Lorelie ruling over a harem of all the other women, including Renee and leaving Dante out in the cold.  (Maybe we can feed him to the space snake...)  This probably means using the boon on Renee.

What I want on the hypnotism route looks like it may be outside the parameters being written.  All the women as compliant slaves, but without Allison being at all bimbofied, just compelled to share with the other women and no other men.  In fact I want to marry her and have her help top everyone else.  Unfortunately, that level of MC of the others seems to require pushing Allison toward pure mindless subervience.

All the women meaning, yes Annie, yes Emma, yes Renee and I guess yes Paula, though we know nothing other that hair color, tit size and that she was in college at the same time.  And cutting Dante out as much as possible.  In the hypno scenario Lorelie could be only sometimes, or she could be completely compelled and in the central harem.

Just did a quick run to check, though it may vary some.  During missionary sex, there was a picture of Allison and Renee is harem attire (the same one available in the dream sequence) and Lorelei comments that Allison and Annie “could not have worked out better if it had been planned” and that “Renee seems to be falling under your spell as well.”

When you cuddle after sex, Lorelei also adds that you should “be careful how you handle Renee” because she would “hate to see trouble in her life”

Thanks!  This was helpful. I couldn’t both confirm my hypnotic skills and talk to Lorelei about my worry that Allison was cheating, so I didn’t get the faithfulness hypnosis option.  But I was able to forbid Allison from seeing Dante during the car ride, which she accepted submissively. And I was able to hypnotize Allison, Emma, Renee and Lorelei the next day.

Also, while she seems to enjoy the role play in the moment, if your hypnosis doesn’t work, Renee texts you that if you try it again, she will hypnotize you with her boobs.

Having done like 50 runs now each one giving me different outcomes makes me just so eager for the next part.The wait is one of the worst parts about a project like this.

I have finally landed on... well I suppose it's my personal favorite run. I'm not all that interested in anything with Dante, so that inevitably means for now that I decline Renee's advances. So far, in order to gain Lorelei's boon but remain honest with Allison as much as possible the only "lie" that I can recall is while talking to Renee I tell her I've enchanted Allison to accept Annie when as far as I can tell up to that point I've done no such thing. This appears to give me a powers of sorts, or at least keeps me on Loreleis good side,  another route I'm particularly fond of. If there's a way to just have Lorelei be my dom eventually I'd be all for it but the draw of occult BE is too strong for me to pursue any other routes.

It was refreshing to kind of figure out my own boon route finally.

I've also noticed in the scene with Lorelei on the last update, it seems you can have addictive/orgasmic cum as, if not a mind control method, at least an enticement for women you're partnered with.

Yeah I've gotten that a few times, where your cum seems to be addictive or something like that. It's either related to or tangential to the hypno cock route that's also possible. A personal favorite of mine is getting the addictive cum orgasm with Lorelei after having given her back the ring and been granted a boon. Just feels like a win/win scenario to me.

The one minor complaint I have at the moment is there are certain points where its unclear if a particular line isn't showing up because you didn't get it, or because you got it and some other lines, and those other ones are being shown instead. The example I'm thinking of is the texts on the last page, Renee has a text that she sometimes sends, but I can't check if I am getting it in my one run, because Emma and Annie also send texts, which are shown. I could do a similar run, and say, not flirt with Emma, but that doesn't really help, because the decision to not might have knock on effects. I'm not even sure if there is a way to change it, or if there is what I would like to see, but I just needed to vent it.

The way to think of it is: If you didn't get it, you didn't get it. It's not a matter of "Renée sent the text but the system only displays x texts so you didn't get to see it."

I realize that one day this will be a completed story and players/readers will get the chance to complete this in a relatively short time frame, but I can't help but feel that Annie has been waiting over five years for us to come spend the weekend with her. Also, unlike the other comics, you can't choose a 'chapter' to start on. You can either repeat the current chapter or go back to the start, which I guess makes sense as the system has to remember all your choices.

I find myself preferring the hypno run, it seems to offer the most choices and feels like you can do most of what Lorelei offers yourself. And hypnotizing Lorelei is currently your longest scene with a boatload of choices, all of which seem to have varying degrees of success. I love the routes that explicitly have her calling me Master or love (even if the cat wants to kill me on that last one). The runs where you primarily use the ring can offer the same or similar results but feel like you're offered less choices overall. I'd still rather have it given the hints of otherworldly forces and other people taking what should be mine.

I do wish it were possible to see stats. Sometimes, it's difficult to see how much a particular choice affected your 'stats' in story. This is especially true when it comes to sex acts. It doesn't feel like it matters where I cum, but I know it does, just like how maxing out all the sex scenes can 'unlock' extra content vs doing wham, bam, thank you, ma'am.

I do look forward to the next phase, even if it is smaller in scope. I find the ending of this phase somewhat perplexing. No matter what I do, the door is always unlocked. This is a fixed point it seems, much like dinner with Dante and Renee. You can't avoid it and you can only change a few things here and there, but no matter what, the door is unlocked and for some reason, that's Important.

Gotcha, clearly this means back to hunting for the perfect setup!

Lest anyone spend excessive time trying to figure this out, the door is in fact always unlocked. There are a few "bottleneck" scenes in the story that you always go through no matter what, and the current ending is one of them.

So I have yet to see anyone say this on here, if someone else did then ignore this, but I think I found how to get the ring every time. It's all about what you do during your first visit to Lorelei, when you take her to bed, go down on her first, then finger her, then fuck her. If you do this exact path I believe you will get the ring in the next phase if you excuse yourself to the bathroom every time. I haven't tried every single combination with this but my first 3 tries I did different things every time and the ring was always there as long as I did those things during sex.
Secondly, I do not believe it is possible in phase 5 to both turn Lorelei into your love slave with the ring AND turn your coworker into your love slave in the office, I have yet to get the option of visiting the coworker in the office if I pick up the ring.

It's possible Lorelei matters, but I've found that what you do with Allison in the very beginning is the most important. Often in this game, a single result has a bunch of inputs (and so can be reached in a number of ways).

You can visit Emma if you have the ring, but you can only do so much MC in a single run. So fully MCing Lorelei would probably preclude you from getting Emma in the office, yes (although you never know with this game!).

Got it! Also, thanks a lot for your guide. Until I found your guide I had little interest in this series cause I didn't realize all the possibilities. (Even though I've been apart of this website for over 10 years now I rarely get on the forums.) But with your guide it has quickly made this arguably my favorite series on the whole site. So thanks a lot!

I'm glad it was helpful! I had a feeling there'd be a bunch of players like that.

I am definitely one of those, really appreciate all your effort.

Huh? I've never seen any indication that you can " lrun out of MC."

Yeah. Say you MC Emma in the cafe; you then won't go as far as with Renee or Lorelei. But if you don't MC her in the cafe, you'll go farther with Renee and Lorelei.

Alternatively: if you want to get Emma in the office, you want to do very little MC to the other women in that chapter. If you want to get a blowjob from Emma, you have to do almost no MC to any other woman in that chapter.

You've only got so many "MC points" to spend, as it were.

Yeah, at this point I've run way too many permutations of trying to MC Lorelei at her place and Emma in the office in the same run, since those are so far my 2 favorite things in the story, and it never works.

That doesn't seem to match up to my runs at all. It's binary; either you can mind control women or not (and if you can't mind control Allison you pretty much can't mind control anybody).

My experience is better described like it's a limited counter than binary. I've found if you cut a women out of the equation the remaining women are more influenced by mc essentially. They'll be more subby, more compliant, more slutty etc than if you try mc on everything.

My most successful runs have involved MC on Allison, Emma, Renee and Lorelei on day 4.  And if I failed to MC Allison or Emma on that day (even if I did previously)  I couldn’t MC Renee or Lorelei. I assumed the protagonist gets better the more he practices.  What I haven’t been able to do in those runs is MC Emma at the office, which is where you can get her to blow you. I’ve only gotten the chance to hypnotize her at the office when I didn’t even have the option to hypnotize Emm at  coffee and hypnotizing Renee failed or she hypnotized me. (As one of the scenarios is  that she hypnotizes you to make Emma become her client).

I haven’t tried an alley run though.

The variety of directions the narrative can go continues to surprise me -- I just recently discovered a route where you don't enslave anybody, don't sleep with Lorelei, don't plan to see Annie, don't accept a blowjob from Renee, and don't make a pass at Emma, BUT the game doesn't give you a 'and you and Allison settle into domestic bliss, game over' at the close of Chapter 4.  So going into Saturday, apparent options are a) you seeing Annie while Allison goes to Renée's party, b) you seeing Annie while Allison stays home, c) you go to the party with Allison, or d) you and Allison get out of town for the weekend.

Haven't found the path I've read about here, where you hypnotize Emma into contacting Renée (is there a route to get Emma to agree to attending the party?), and I haven't sussed out a route to Renée hypnotizing you at the coffee shop, got it once but can't seem to find it again.

There sure is  ;D

I’ve really given it the old college try, but does anyone have a path where you get Renee to MC you and you get her card to use on Emma? It’s the one outcome I can’t seem to work out.

I wish I could help more. I only got that route at the very beginning, in a save file that wasn’t reset for some reason. So it may have been incomplete.

I do recall that focusing on Renee’s breasts in conversation at the coffee shop helped as she is basically the Dr Laurel trope it seems like. And that it was blue dress (standing) Emma, and she agreed to a date and surprised me with having asked Allison about our “arrangement” (I usually get her to agree to coffee by offering to invite Allison rather than claiming an arrangement). Also, Lorelei didn’t ask me to come to her place that day.  I believe Allison fell into a trance at breakfast.

Can anyone confirm that it is possible to interact with Emma back at the office after getting Renee's hypnotist business card?  I saw someone else referring to that but haven't managed to make it happen.

I got to a point where you interact with both Emma (BSD shirt) and Renee in the coffee house and are definitely being MC'd by Renee (getting hard in response to texts, sparkling eyes, she picks how the restroom scene ends, sudden urge to disclose Allison's "special thing", etc)  If I piss Emma off, I get the message from HR but no card.  If I don't piss Emma off, I find the card in a pocket but don't get the chance to interact with Emma.  I think I tried all the variations starting at the point of getting to the office.

Yes.

Thank you!

... and curse you, now I "have" to go try other close variations. 

Having the same issue, oh so close but still haven’t gotten the opportunity to use the card on Emma.

How do I get to the scenario where I can just command people using the ring?  I haven’t seen anything like that but have heard of it.

If this is a thing I would also love to know.

Just curious what everyone's favorite paths are so far. While It's amusing and entertaining for me to see/experience Bimbolei, I am not personally interested in sharing with Dante much. Besides perhaps Lorelei continuing to domme him (this is revealed within some mind control of Renee). Due to this lack of interest in Dante (hot wifing/poly relations with men just simply doesn't interest me) so far my personal favorite path has mostly lead to me ignoring just about everyone but Allison and then expressing interest in our ex Paula. For 2 fairly obvious reasons, Boon boobs are on my wishlist. I've found expressing love to Annie but ultimately not going out to see her as my preferred route, simply because it seems to be how you can avoid getting a bj from Renee, and thus involving yourself with them beyond a platonic manner, while still allowing for a boon from Lorelei. This also makes it so I don't physically cheat on Allison, again something I like to head cannon. Is this route a "good boyfriend" route of sorts? I suppose so, but you still perform some MC on Allison this way and are manipulative and controlling of her, so hardly a "saint".

Interestingly enough, avoiding any MC on Allison seems to inevitably cause her to instead be MC'd by either Dante, Renee, Lorelei, or some combination of that trio, and leads to involving yourself in the Dante and Renee party. I have tried several times to effectively just have sex with Allison like a normal couple and it seems to always lead to a BJ from Renee. The story has so many permutations, I'm mostly curious if anyone's figured out if Allison can be not mind controlled at all or not. Do you just have to ice her on the first night? Feels mean is all, even for a porn game.

Pretty sure the boon path I listed in the other thread does this!

Thanks!

I stumbled into hypnotizing Lorelei... despite not actively trying to do that today. Outside of holding onto the ring because I was curious. Ive been playing it a lot lately, and I feel I've "formulated" 2 paths, mostly related to who is doing the hypnosis and how.

Hereno has already laid this out for folks in more detail, but I just wanted to share my own experiences.

1. I'm the hypnotist - varying degrees of selfishness. You can pretty much garuntee a slave/hypnotized Allison if you pick all the sexy times in ch1 and then do her special thing. Personally, I wish you could choose to do all these things and then not command her to do anything simply because I like reading about my female partner having pleasureable sex, but that's just me. Perhaps a very controlling hypnotism ala "You will only orgasm with me". That sounds hot af and pretty top/dom energy at least. Addicted to sex , with me, etc. This route seems to encourage Allisons libido to be really high and if you do this at the start you are locked out of Loreleis boon routes, as far as I can tell.

2. Lorelei is the hypnotist - this is my personal favorite route. From as best as I can tell, this route is effectively that Lorelei is hypnotizing Allison to be your ideal women, and will even bring that up with you in conversation day 3. You can do this path without having Allison interested/involved in poly or interested, but the best version of this partiuclar route at least to me is Loreleis boon.  This does require you to have picked up the ring in Dante/Renees apartment.

A lot of runs will have Allison and/or Lorelei talk about getting addicted to sex with you. There are even runs where it seems like your cum has a direct orgasmic effect (and possibly a boob-growing effect).

I have noticed the addictive /orgasmic cum. Seems to be in line with high sex/libido runs though not always.

Everytime I think "oh this always results in Boon Lorelei" I get shown that's not the case. It's incredible to me how nuanced it is. I should probably actually chart out each route... but its such a monumental feat and I'm usually on my phone so I'm too lazy to bother.

I got a sequence where you actively tell Allison to be your sex-slave... and it's easily one of my favorite drawings of her. I hadn't seen it until this morning. She is just delightfully busty already and it's a thin white lingerie like night gown. Just so hot. This seems to be linked to the addictive cum path. Uncertain. Either way, it's quite exciting. Doesnt seem to link to a boon route. Ive yet to really establish how that works, though I do think it has something to do with which MC you choose, and choose to do. If you "do her special thing" with Allison I haven't found a boon route off that. Pondering and waiting excitedly for the evening with Allison.

Well apparently the trick to getting Renee's card and using it on Emma is to not try and get that ending  ???

Finally got that to work and led to what can only be described as a Renee total domination ending. Was just trying to do a normal collar/hypno run and wasn't really paying attention to the choices I was making. Have not been able to reproduce it but it seems you at least need to be able to hypnotize Emma in the cafe (but not actually do it) which i believed to be confirmed as an already narrow path. So it's a narrow path on a narrow path.

It’s a pretty easy path to reproduce for me. No matter how dominant or skilled you are at mind control, as long as you keep staring at and complimenting Renee’s boobs without wearing the Ring (having it is fine, just don't slip the Ring on before meeting with Renee, and maybe avoid mind-controlling Emma at the café), and you’re on the ‘collar’ path, you’re very likely to get reverse-hypnotized.

I’m not into the MC getting hypnotized, so I skipped this path at first. After trying it, though, I was intrigued. This path has a lot of sexy new dialogue and a few insanely hot images. I don’t usually keep save points, but this one definitely deserves one.

Does anyone have a set of instructions for it? I’ve get to encounter Renee’s card or her hypnotizing you in the cafe

I thought I did have the ring in the cafe, but maybe that's why I haven't gotten it again, thanks.

I can't produce this even after trying to follow the other prompts from Hereno. Does anyone know the prompts for getting the card from Renee plus triggering Emma at the office?

I believe to get the business cards, Renee has to actually see Emma. So you need a result where Renee spots her on the way out. In other words, take a long time hypnotizing Emma.

I'll update the flow to say that.

My other "path" so far seems to be Loerelei doing the MC? I'm not certain. What I know is reading about pleasuring Lorelei is hot af. I think ive got a bit of a dommy woman thing though and she just exudes that aura.